For today's entry in the Friday Five interview series, we catch up with Charles Stone.
Charles Stone is a pastor in London, Ontario and an author. His most recent book is People Pleasing Pastors.
Today we chat with Charles about people pleasing, collaborative leadership, and thinking rightly.
You've done a lot of study on the nature of pastoral leadership. What led you to write a book on the tendency to people please?
I've served as a pastor in some capacity for over 33 years. Early on in my ministry I found that I sometimes said "yes" to people in the church even though I wanted to say "no." It seemed that an invisible pull inside me prevented me from saying "no." And if I said "no," I either did it too forcefully or kept thinking that I'd suffer some negative consequence for doing so. Over time I realized that I had developed ingrained habits of people pleasing. I realized that such a problem would stifle my ministry. So, I began to learn some insights about people pleasing, did some extensive research, and realized I wasn't alone. Over 70% of pastors deal with people pleasing at some level. As a result, I felt prompted to write the book.
The job of a pastor, by nature, is to bring people together, to lead a diverse group of volunteers and staff. So how does the pastor avoid a people-pleasing mentality when, by the function of his job, he has to at least satisfy those he serves?
It is important to realize that all people pleasing is not wrong or sinful. We are to love others with Christ's love and often that means pleasing them (i.e., being kind, compassionate, caring, and forgiving). Yet at the same time, leaders must lead. Leading requires leading people and churches/ministries to change. People don't mind change, as long as it doesn't affect them. But when change is necessary, we sometimes must go in directions that won't please everybody. Unless we lead with courage (and effect change) and are willing to NOT please everyone, we will end up pleasing no one and in turn become miserable ourselves.
My guess is that younger pastors and church planters fight this more than older ones. Is that true?
Yes, my research showed that the younger a pastor, the greater tendency to please. We want to be successful, so we often subconsciously think that we must people please to get people to come to or stay at our church. Unfortunately, if young pastors don't catch their tendencies and make appropriate changes, they will bring unhealthy patterns far into their ministry. And the more unhealthy the people pleasing, the less effective and more unhappy we become. Another factor is that with age comes wisdom. As we age and mature, we often discover the hard way that people pleasing is unhealthy. So, the sooner a pastor develops good relational habits that preclude people pleasing, the healthier he or she will be.
You've recently moved from the Chicago suburbs to Canada to pastor a church in the London, Ontario area. How is ministry different in that part of North America?
Before I even started at my church I attended a luncheon with several other Canadian pastors. After the luncheon I asked one pastor what would be one bit of advice he'd give me serving in Canada. He first prefaced his answer with the comment that many American pastors come to Canada and don't succeed. He then shared his advice. "Be more collaborative in your leadership." I believe that's the biggest difference in Canada and the United States. Often in the States pastors lead with a more top-down management style. Canadians prefer more of a collaborative style.
So if you could give one piece of leadership advice to a young pastor or church planter, what would that be?
I'm going to fudge here and offer two. The first is to find a safe friend with whom they can freely share their struggles. Without such a friend, other than your spouse, leading will be very lonely. Second, learn the discipline of thinking about what you are thinking about. One of the greatest drains in a pastor's life is excessive rumination, reflection over, and rehearsing of negative stuff in the church. The more a pastor can make him or herself aware of these negative thoughts and then switch them to more positive ones, the healthier he will be and the more enjoyable he will find his ministry.
Daniel Darling is vice-president of communications for the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. He is the author of several books, including his latest, Activist Faith.
