This article addresses the surface of the problem of relativism, but it doesn't address a solution. Vedanta is an entirely different worldview from the Judeo-Christian worldview with somewhat similar terms. How do you dialog with a person who simultaneously believes he should live a humble lifestyle that often looks more pious than yours, but believes that Brahman (or God) is the sustaining entity of existence? There is a real theological discrepancy that needs to be addressed. Does anyone know how to discuss the matter in a loving way?
Patrick Mitchel, Ireland
March 17, 20106:12am
a very helpful description of the challenges and realities of living in a pluralist world. I would have loved a bit more reflection on the specific Asian context and lessons learnt over generations living with pluralism. The 'shock' of post-Christendom in the West is still being processed by churches here as they begin to get used to being on the margins. I suspect many are longing to 'go back' to 'simpler' times when Christianity was as the centre. Others fear the future. It would have been great to hear more on what they can learn from the long experiences of Asian brothers and sisters.
Carminha Speirs, Brazil
March 15, 20103:29pm
I agree with CD from USA, the same challenge has been throughout Christian history. The difference is in the resources used now a days to face it. In the Old Testament we see Moyses learning from God how he should convince the hebrews who were living amongst people who worshiped so many different gods and also Pharaoh about this Only God who was all powerfull and wanted His people out of Egypt. He didn't teach Moyses about intelectual arguments nor Paul used other then the Power of God (the Gospel) to convince his audiences. The Holy Spirit is the One to convince the pluralist and any other sinner about the Truth. God only needs men and women commited to Him and to His Kingdom who are ready to lose (when necessary) and take risks for Him, the rest of it is all with Him, as it has been throughout History.
CD, USA
March 07, 20109:32pm
Challenges to the claims, "Jesus is the truth", "no other name" is not something new. Throughout history of Christian movement/mission, these challenges were there. The issue is that Christians like to be respectable and accepted in the pluralistic society/world. We want to tone down a bit about these claims concerning Jesus Christ and Gospel/Evangel.
Alex Araujo, USA
March 05, 201012:44pm
Excellent help from Chan And McAllister (I have not yet read the others).
McAllister in particular addresses Western trends, and I think we need to look at this a little more deeply. How much of the current reality is Western-initiated and superimposed on the rest of the world? Is it possible that we are projecting on non-Western Christians our own struggles over this issue? If they had initiated the dialogue, would they address it the same way? I understand Chan is Asian, but as an evangelical theologian, he seems to be part of that noble circle of internationals who grapple with issues considered priority to that group of people. Nothing wrong with that, but it may miss some realities that are outside that rather small and specialized circle.
I am not saying that pluralism and relativism is only a Western concern. I am asking whether the degree of concern and the approach to the issue are not overly Western, responding to a Western awakening to the issue?
Jon and Mindy Hirst, USA
March 03, 20109:21pm
Thank you for sharing these thoughts. We are at a key turning point in how we view truth - our truth lens. We have spent much of the last century in a time of great progress but also significant arrogance about truth. In the later part of this century we have seen the move that the author is talking about to world without absolute truth. The key as the author described is a third way - a human context to truth. I call it "the truth we know and the truth we are learning." My wife and I have written a book about this and it has been an amazing journey to see how God is building off a foundation of absolute truth within a community of humble learners. Thanks for bringing this topic front and center!
octavio del callar, Philippines
March 02, 20103:57am
I do agree that Aisian pluralism is a defitnetly a good and the best means in seeking the word of the Lord Almighty. All Christian and non-Chrstian religions such as Islam, Hindi and Buddism have truly the same basis, a belief in a Lord who is Almighty. As I understand it, the Holy Bible and the Koran contain the same basic teachings of what is good and what is bad.
Personally, I admit it was only lately when I became of age (now 79) that I have been reading the Bible. In my youth, I remember in our religion that private Bible readings and studies were prohibited.
I say this for a fact that my preparatory, secondary and college schooling were achived in private Catholic Schools.
My eyes have been opened with these readings from this Lausane movement. Keep it up.
My eyes have thus been opened with what I read in the
octavio del callar, Philippines
March 02, 20103:57am
I do agree that Aisian pluralism is a defitnetly a good and the best means in seeking the word of the Lord Almighty. All Christian and non-Chrstian religions such as Islam, Hindi and Buddism have truly the same basis, a belief in a Lord who is Almighty. As I understand it, the Holy Bible and the Koran contain the same basic teachings of what is good and what is bad.
Personally, I admit it was only lately when I became of age (now 79) that I have been reading the Bible. In my youth, I remember in our religion that private Bible readings and studies were prohibited.
I say this for a fact that my preparatory, secondary and college schooling were achived in private Catholic Schools.
My eyes have been opened with these readings from this Lausane movement. Keep it up.
My eyes have thus been opened with what I read in the
octavio del callar, Philippines
March 02, 20103:57am
I do agree that Aisian pluralism is a defitnetly a good and the best means in seeking the word of the Lord Almighty. All Christian and non-Chrstian religions such as Islam, Hindi and Buddism have truly the same basis, a belief in a Lord who is Almighty. As I understand it, the Holy Bible and the Koran contain the same basic teachings of what is good and what is bad.
Personally, I admit it was only lately when I became of age (now 79) that I have been reading the Bible. In my youth, I remember in our religion that private Bible readings and studies were prohibited.
I say this for a fact that my preparatory, secondary and college schooling were achived in private Catholic Schools.
My eyes have been opened with these readings from this Lausane movement. Keep it up.
My eyes have thus been opened with what I read in the
Brian E. Wakeman, UK
February 27, 201011:12am
Thank you for your faith-building paper!
River Out of Eden
Are we ‘nothing but’ survival machines
Robot vehicles blindly programmed
To preserve the selfish molecules known as genes?
Do we animals exist for their preservation?
Richard Dawkins speaks without reservation:
“We are nothing more than throw away
Survival machines. The world of the gene let me say
Is one of savage competition
Deceit and ruthless exploitation”.
Does this inexorably lead humanity to fall
Into the devil’s doctrine, ‘the weakest should go to the wall?
A polluted stream with the misdeeds of atheism
Rather than the so-called ‘memes’ of theism.
It’s only one step into the swirling current of materialism
To the murky water of Hitler, Pol Pot, and Stalinism.
Thank God for Nietzsche’s ‘one great curse…intrinsic depravity’
Christ’s example and teaching, and its universality!
Brian E. Wakman, UK
February 27, 201011:00am
I am wondering whether the distinction is sufficiently clearly made between the richness and benefits of cultural pluralism in a descriptive sense and epistemological pluralism?
benedict kay, india
February 27, 20101:37am
the world is changing. thinking is changing. The Church has to find new ways to sustain faith. People, especially the youngsters, seem anxious and bored at the same time. So the search for alternatives; and mushrooing spiritual shops and new age gurus. The Scientologists are on a rampage in the media. Relativism is something which is going to catch up, as the search for truth continue.........!
Christine Dillon, Australian in Taiwan
February 26, 20107:48pm
Thank-you for all your thoughful articles and responses. One encouragement of LC is to 'meet' the many who are my brothers and sisters throughout the world. Very encouraging.
I spend my days in southern Taiwan telling Bible stories to people who are not really seekers. Most of them are content with their own religion although many have never questioned. Instead, they just accept 'what their parents believe'. They have no intention of becoming followers of Christ and in fact think it is a "western religion!" and that "all religions are the same." I usually do not respond to these things early on but start telling them the salvation story from Genesis. This helps them begin to question their ideas. Things that attract them are the story itself (the greatest of all stories) but also that someone would listen to them and spend time with them. That someone would not rush or push them. What a privilege to see God working in them.
M. J. Mvula, Malawi
February 15, 20102:23pm
It took me quite some time to realize that it is God who is in the business of building his kingdom. The concept of missio Dei spells it clearly. Once upon a time, we were classified as a dark continent as if God was absent from it. Far from the truth, God was and still is at work building His Kingdom which is stronger and reaching out everywhere. The centre of mission is no longer in the West. It is everywhere. We need to open up to dialogue with other faiths. the lion defends itself and the truth we embrace will defend itself. Globalization has brought these faiths on our doorsteps. What an opportune time to proclaim the true Gospel and not a caricature of it.
ronnie magpayo, Philippines
February 13, 20103:40am
"In commending truth in the face of relativism, we are dealing with people, not just cold ideas." This is a very important point that Mark Chan pointed out in his article. People of this world, coming from different faith traditions are all seekers of truth. Humanity, and not ideologies is a fundamental reason why different forms of dialogue are necessary to understand "truth" in a post-modern context. It is exerting effort for people to find common ground to be able to find our contribution in God's kingdom building. The truth is that God is in the process of bringing his kingdom in this world. The question we need to answer is, are we part of this kingdom building. This can be answered in many ways and we, as Christians, cannot simply play the role of a final arbiter. Instead, as we continue to engage the World through a serious and honest reflection of the Word, we may have a better chance to be able to contribute in this kingdom building.
Tsheboko, South Africa
February 12, 20102:40am
This article is one that encourages christians not to comform to the the standards or the customs of this world but to rather continue telling the world that Jesus Christ is Lord no matter the cost of telling this truth. As christians we need not be ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus for it is the power of God that brings about slavation to all mankind despite race, one's home/official language, birth palce/country or any other thing that the world's system may regard as a disadvantage to another person. All we need to do as the children of the most high is to show the world the love that God showed us through which we where saved from our since.
Luis E C, Argentina
February 08, 20102:24pm
I congratulate the author, not only helps us to be tolerant, but also to continue preaching of Jesus, there is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved.
"Moruti" Lutz, South Africa
February 07, 20102:19pm
I can testify from my life: Jesus is the way to the Father. But: the only way - that's a different storry alltogether! It seems to be not an easy issue to chew on, if I look at some of the responses here. An excellent book on this is Paul Knitter's "No other name?"; I think, his analysis of the problem and a portrait of various attempts of solving it is really brilliant - though I may not fully share his conclusions.
"Moruti" Lutz, South Africa
February 05, 201012:38am
Concerning Stuart McAllister's comment on the "end of apologetics": maybe one has to differenciate and say: "the end of apologetis as we know it". In a postmodern culture we will have to learn, how to spell out the gospel of Jesus in a way that can be understood. Maybe the "Finding Faith" books of Brian McLaren could give an indication, what effective apologetics in our postmodern times could look like ("A Search For What Makes Sense" and "A Search for What is Real")?
"Moruti" Lutz, South Africa
February 04, 20106:53am
PART TWO
After all, we are called to do so, and the "historic accident" that you and I were born in the present times, i.e. in post-modernity (or whatever other label you prefere) to me is an indication that it is our job to spell out the good news of God's love and grace into the parlance of - post-modernity! But how?
My tentative sugestion: can we talk of "that which makes sense". After all, truth (as long as it existed) never mattered as long as it remaind some abstract metaphysical thought "out there"; it had to make sense, otherwise it remains irreleveant. I admit, it may be a bit disappointing to replace the traditional "truth" with "something that make sense to me", but at least it would capture an important aspect.
"Moruti" Lutz, South Africa
February 04, 20106:53am
PART ONE
When reading Chan's article I can only agree on the analysis he gives: that apparently in our postmodern world an absolute truth does not count any longer. Truth has beeb tribalized, as he said.
I wonder, though, if it is not possible to turn this threat into an oportunity, with a bit of creative thinking. If we have to admitt that the world we live in does no longer accept "truth" as a valid category or concept, is there a way how we could continue proclaiming the gospel of the Jesus Christ who says: I am the truth!
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Neal, USA
This article addresses the surface of the problem of relativism, but it doesn't address a solution. Vedanta is an entirely different worldview from the Judeo-Christian worldview with somewhat similar terms. How do you dialog with a person who simultaneously believes he should live a humble lifestyle that often looks more pious than yours, but believes that Brahman (or God) is the sustaining entity of existence? There is a real theological discrepancy that needs to be addressed. Does anyone know how to discuss the matter in a loving way?
Patrick Mitchel, Ireland
a very helpful description of the challenges and realities of living in a pluralist world. I would have loved a bit more reflection on the specific Asian context and lessons learnt over generations living with pluralism. The 'shock' of post-Christendom in the West is still being processed by churches here as they begin to get used to being on the margins. I suspect many are longing to 'go back' to 'simpler' times when Christianity was as the centre. Others fear the future. It would have been great to hear more on what they can learn from the long experiences of Asian brothers and sisters.
Carminha Speirs, Brazil
I agree with CD from USA, the same challenge has been throughout Christian history. The difference is in the resources used now a days to face it. In the Old Testament we see Moyses learning from God how he should convince the hebrews who were living amongst people who worshiped so many different gods and also Pharaoh about this Only God who was all powerfull and wanted His people out of Egypt. He didn't teach Moyses about intelectual arguments nor Paul used other then the Power of God (the Gospel) to convince his audiences. The Holy Spirit is the One to convince the pluralist and any other sinner about the Truth. God only needs men and women commited to Him and to His Kingdom who are ready to lose (when necessary) and take risks for Him, the rest of it is all with Him, as it has been throughout History.
CD, USA
Challenges to the claims, "Jesus is the truth", "no other name" is not something new. Throughout history of Christian movement/mission, these challenges were there. The issue is that Christians like to be respectable and accepted in the pluralistic society/world. We want to tone down a bit about these claims concerning Jesus Christ and Gospel/Evangel.
Alex Araujo, USA
Excellent help from Chan And McAllister (I have not yet read the others). McAllister in particular addresses Western trends, and I think we need to look at this a little more deeply. How much of the current reality is Western-initiated and superimposed on the rest of the world? Is it possible that we are projecting on non-Western Christians our own struggles over this issue? If they had initiated the dialogue, would they address it the same way? I understand Chan is Asian, but as an evangelical theologian, he seems to be part of that noble circle of internationals who grapple with issues considered priority to that group of people. Nothing wrong with that, but it may miss some realities that are outside that rather small and specialized circle. I am not saying that pluralism and relativism is only a Western concern. I am asking whether the degree of concern and the approach to the issue are not overly Western, responding to a Western awakening to the issue?
Jon and Mindy Hirst, USA
Thank you for sharing these thoughts. We are at a key turning point in how we view truth - our truth lens. We have spent much of the last century in a time of great progress but also significant arrogance about truth. In the later part of this century we have seen the move that the author is talking about to world without absolute truth. The key as the author described is a third way - a human context to truth. I call it "the truth we know and the truth we are learning." My wife and I have written a book about this and it has been an amazing journey to see how God is building off a foundation of absolute truth within a community of humble learners. Thanks for bringing this topic front and center!
octavio del callar, Philippines
I do agree that Aisian pluralism is a defitnetly a good and the best means in seeking the word of the Lord Almighty. All Christian and non-Chrstian religions such as Islam, Hindi and Buddism have truly the same basis, a belief in a Lord who is Almighty. As I understand it, the Holy Bible and the Koran contain the same basic teachings of what is good and what is bad. Personally, I admit it was only lately when I became of age (now 79) that I have been reading the Bible. In my youth, I remember in our religion that private Bible readings and studies were prohibited. I say this for a fact that my preparatory, secondary and college schooling were achived in private Catholic Schools. My eyes have been opened with these readings from this Lausane movement. Keep it up. My eyes have thus been opened with what I read in the
octavio del callar, Philippines
I do agree that Aisian pluralism is a defitnetly a good and the best means in seeking the word of the Lord Almighty. All Christian and non-Chrstian religions such as Islam, Hindi and Buddism have truly the same basis, a belief in a Lord who is Almighty. As I understand it, the Holy Bible and the Koran contain the same basic teachings of what is good and what is bad. Personally, I admit it was only lately when I became of age (now 79) that I have been reading the Bible. In my youth, I remember in our religion that private Bible readings and studies were prohibited. I say this for a fact that my preparatory, secondary and college schooling were achived in private Catholic Schools. My eyes have been opened with these readings from this Lausane movement. Keep it up. My eyes have thus been opened with what I read in the
octavio del callar, Philippines
I do agree that Aisian pluralism is a defitnetly a good and the best means in seeking the word of the Lord Almighty. All Christian and non-Chrstian religions such as Islam, Hindi and Buddism have truly the same basis, a belief in a Lord who is Almighty. As I understand it, the Holy Bible and the Koran contain the same basic teachings of what is good and what is bad. Personally, I admit it was only lately when I became of age (now 79) that I have been reading the Bible. In my youth, I remember in our religion that private Bible readings and studies were prohibited. I say this for a fact that my preparatory, secondary and college schooling were achived in private Catholic Schools. My eyes have been opened with these readings from this Lausane movement. Keep it up. My eyes have thus been opened with what I read in the
Brian E. Wakeman, UK
Thank you for your faith-building paper! River Out of Eden Are we ‘nothing but’ survival machines Robot vehicles blindly programmed To preserve the selfish molecules known as genes? Do we animals exist for their preservation? Richard Dawkins speaks without reservation: “We are nothing more than throw away Survival machines. The world of the gene let me say Is one of savage competition Deceit and ruthless exploitation”. Does this inexorably lead humanity to fall Into the devil’s doctrine, ‘the weakest should go to the wall? A polluted stream with the misdeeds of atheism Rather than the so-called ‘memes’ of theism. It’s only one step into the swirling current of materialism To the murky water of Hitler, Pol Pot, and Stalinism. Thank God for Nietzsche’s ‘one great curse…intrinsic depravity’ Christ’s example and teaching, and its universality!
Brian E. Wakman, UK
I am wondering whether the distinction is sufficiently clearly made between the richness and benefits of cultural pluralism in a descriptive sense and epistemological pluralism?
benedict kay, india
the world is changing. thinking is changing. The Church has to find new ways to sustain faith. People, especially the youngsters, seem anxious and bored at the same time. So the search for alternatives; and mushrooing spiritual shops and new age gurus. The Scientologists are on a rampage in the media. Relativism is something which is going to catch up, as the search for truth continue.........!
Christine Dillon, Australian in Taiwan
Thank-you for all your thoughful articles and responses. One encouragement of LC is to 'meet' the many who are my brothers and sisters throughout the world. Very encouraging. I spend my days in southern Taiwan telling Bible stories to people who are not really seekers. Most of them are content with their own religion although many have never questioned. Instead, they just accept 'what their parents believe'. They have no intention of becoming followers of Christ and in fact think it is a "western religion!" and that "all religions are the same." I usually do not respond to these things early on but start telling them the salvation story from Genesis. This helps them begin to question their ideas. Things that attract them are the story itself (the greatest of all stories) but also that someone would listen to them and spend time with them. That someone would not rush or push them. What a privilege to see God working in them.
M. J. Mvula, Malawi
It took me quite some time to realize that it is God who is in the business of building his kingdom. The concept of missio Dei spells it clearly. Once upon a time, we were classified as a dark continent as if God was absent from it. Far from the truth, God was and still is at work building His Kingdom which is stronger and reaching out everywhere. The centre of mission is no longer in the West. It is everywhere. We need to open up to dialogue with other faiths. the lion defends itself and the truth we embrace will defend itself. Globalization has brought these faiths on our doorsteps. What an opportune time to proclaim the true Gospel and not a caricature of it.
ronnie magpayo, Philippines
"In commending truth in the face of relativism, we are dealing with people, not just cold ideas." This is a very important point that Mark Chan pointed out in his article. People of this world, coming from different faith traditions are all seekers of truth. Humanity, and not ideologies is a fundamental reason why different forms of dialogue are necessary to understand "truth" in a post-modern context. It is exerting effort for people to find common ground to be able to find our contribution in God's kingdom building. The truth is that God is in the process of bringing his kingdom in this world. The question we need to answer is, are we part of this kingdom building. This can be answered in many ways and we, as Christians, cannot simply play the role of a final arbiter. Instead, as we continue to engage the World through a serious and honest reflection of the Word, we may have a better chance to be able to contribute in this kingdom building.
Tsheboko, South Africa
This article is one that encourages christians not to comform to the the standards or the customs of this world but to rather continue telling the world that Jesus Christ is Lord no matter the cost of telling this truth. As christians we need not be ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus for it is the power of God that brings about slavation to all mankind despite race, one's home/official language, birth palce/country or any other thing that the world's system may regard as a disadvantage to another person. All we need to do as the children of the most high is to show the world the love that God showed us through which we where saved from our since.
Luis E C, Argentina
I congratulate the author, not only helps us to be tolerant, but also to continue preaching of Jesus, there is no other name given among men whereby we must be saved.
"Moruti" Lutz, South Africa
I can testify from my life: Jesus is the way to the Father. But: the only way - that's a different storry alltogether! It seems to be not an easy issue to chew on, if I look at some of the responses here. An excellent book on this is Paul Knitter's "No other name?"; I think, his analysis of the problem and a portrait of various attempts of solving it is really brilliant - though I may not fully share his conclusions.
"Moruti" Lutz, South Africa
Concerning Stuart McAllister's comment on the "end of apologetics": maybe one has to differenciate and say: "the end of apologetis as we know it". In a postmodern culture we will have to learn, how to spell out the gospel of Jesus in a way that can be understood. Maybe the "Finding Faith" books of Brian McLaren could give an indication, what effective apologetics in our postmodern times could look like ("A Search For What Makes Sense" and "A Search for What is Real")?
"Moruti" Lutz, South Africa
PART TWO After all, we are called to do so, and the "historic accident" that you and I were born in the present times, i.e. in post-modernity (or whatever other label you prefere) to me is an indication that it is our job to spell out the good news of God's love and grace into the parlance of - post-modernity! But how? My tentative sugestion: can we talk of "that which makes sense". After all, truth (as long as it existed) never mattered as long as it remaind some abstract metaphysical thought "out there"; it had to make sense, otherwise it remains irreleveant. I admit, it may be a bit disappointing to replace the traditional "truth" with "something that make sense to me", but at least it would capture an important aspect.
"Moruti" Lutz, South Africa
PART ONE When reading Chan's article I can only agree on the analysis he gives: that apparently in our postmodern world an absolute truth does not count any longer. Truth has beeb tribalized, as he said. I wonder, though, if it is not possible to turn this threat into an oportunity, with a bit of creative thinking. If we have to admitt that the world we live in does no longer accept "truth" as a valid category or concept, is there a way how we could continue proclaiming the gospel of the Jesus Christ who says: I am the truth!
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