What is the most racist thing you’ve ever experienced?

That’s the question that was posed to Esau McCaulley, an author, assistant professor, and contributing opinion writer for The New York Times, as he sat on a panel in front of a mostly white audience. He didn’t answer the question. On a new episode of The Russell Moore Show, he explains why.

Tune in for a rich conversation on suffering, how we tell our stories, and the meaning of empathy. Moore and McCaulley cover systemic injustice, the function of society, and how our personal backgrounds inform everything from our political engagement to the way we read Scripture.

Reflecting on the wounds and grace of fatherhood, they discuss how they work to make God’s love plausible. They talk about McCaulley’s forthcoming book, a memoir titled How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family’s Story of Hope and Survival in the American South. And they talk about addiction, pastoring, and what McCaulley has learned as a military spouse.

Resources discussed during this episode include:


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“The Russell Moore Show” is a production of Christianity Today
Executive Producers: Erik Petrik, Russell Moore, and Mike Cosper
Host: Russell Moore
Producer: Ashley Hales
Associate Producers: Abby Perry and Azurae Phelps
CT Administration: Christine Kolb
Social Media: Kate Lucky
Director of Operations for CT Media: Matt Stevens
Production Assistance: coreMEDIA
Audio Engineer: Kevin Duthu
Coordinator: Beth Grabenkort
Video Producer: John Roland
Theme Song: “Dusty Delta Day” by Lennon Hutton