Max Lucado is a steady voice of faith in a world that is changing wildly. As pastor of Oak Hills Church in San Antonio, Texas, he’s written numerous best-selling books without being divisive or reactionary. In his latest book, Glory Days: Living Your Promised Land Life Now, Lucado writes about the pervasive nature of cultural influences. “Voices await you today. At work, in your cul-de-sac, at school, on the Internet. They’re waiting for you. They stand on the intersections of your social life and family. You can’t eliminate their presence. But you can prepare for their invitation.” For Lucado faith is a constant source of strength that helps us put those voices into perspective. We talked to Lucado about how his faith helps him in the face of an increasingly traumatic and noisy world.
In Glory Days you write about the Internet, and public schools, and community. But beyond these broad sources of influence, could you tell us about the kinds of voices you encounter with on a weekly basis?
It’s a hard day we live in. Every single one of us, whether we’re in church leadership or not, is a mouse click away from pornography. We’re a mouse click away from some tragedy, if we log on to CNN.com. So anxiety is around one corner, and temptation is right around the other. I don’t know if any generation has ever lived with such easy access to temptation and fear.
I’m sure there are people who have lived in war torn eras—World War II, World War I—where anxiety felt closer. At the same time, we’ve got these global threats floating around that come quickly over my cell phone, smart phone, or iPad. And then the temptation to compromise our convictions on a regular basis. So those are the two voices that I hear daily. And every day I’ve got to make a choice.
At the risk of coming across as super spiritual, to me it really comes down to this: I think Satan is a big, fat liar. I really do. He has never delivered on a promise that he has made. What I learned in Sunday school as a little kid is still what I depend on now as a 60-year-old: Jesus tells the truth and Satan tells lies. Learning to lean into the truth instead of leaning into the lies is pretty much what the Christian life is all about.
As a pastor, what are some uniquely loud voices that you’re hearing?
Every time somebody says, “You’re such a wonderful spiritual leader,” there is a temptation to believe that.
Every time somebody says, “You’re such a wonderful spiritual leader,” there is a temptation to believe that. Because I’m not. I may have a little more experience than they do, but I’m certainly not as good as they’re saying I am. But there’s a temptation to believe that I am. And there is a temptation to believe I am as bad as some people say I am.
In every church there are naysayers, there are critics, there are unhappy people. I’ve been at this church since 1988. I’m closing in on 30 years, and I still have people who complain and are grumpy and critical. I have to fight that thought: Am I as bad as some people say I am?
Those are the two extremes we in ministry really have to struggle with: feeling self-righteous or defeated. Their voices are completely different, but both of them require leaning into the truth. There has never been a Sunday that I’ve driven home from church having preached that I didn’t battle with insecurity.
I get up and lay this all out in front of all these people: to believe in Jesus Christ who lived 2,000 years ago, and believe that his death on the cross is what I need to forgive my sins for all of eternity. That there’s a power called the Holy Spirit who will take up residence within you and change you forever. It is the most audacious story in the history of the world.
I get up there week after week and I say that. And when I’m driving home I think, What did I just tell all those people? So I have to talk myself off the ledge and say, “You know what? There’s a reason you believe this.”
I have to deal with that insecurity that comes from being vulnerable, calling the church to deeper faith.
Part of your job is speaking this voice of Scripture, and certainly you’re preaching that to yourself. Why is it so hard to hear that and so much easier to hear all of these other voices instead?
Ultimately everything is spiritual warfare. I think there is a serious plot afoot by the devil to speak lies to me on a regular basis. I think when Jesus said, “The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church,” he was talking about the decision-makers of hell, that there is a strategy. The devil has plots and ploys. He’s trying to destroy me.
But I take great hope in the statement of Christ that the gates of hell will not prevail ultimately. I may be tested, and I’m sure I’ll stumble, but I will not fall completely. I really take a lot of hope in that.
I feel like I do better now than I ever have before. I think there was a time early in my ministry when I heard a lot more of these voices than I do today. I like to encourage young preachers and say, “You know what? It really does get better. It does.”
I feel more conviction in my faith, more fire in my faith, than I ever have. I fall upon God’s grace more completely than I ever have, because I realize the folly of falling on my own good works. Grace means a lot more to me than it ever has. I’m hearing the voices of faith more clearly than I have in years past.
It’s interesting that you feel you’ve improved in that area over time, but you started this interview saying things are harder than ever with all the different voices coming at us. Have you had to take some practical steps to block out voices, or filter them in some way?
Yes, I have. For example, in the area of temptation I have Internet filters everywhere. In fact, it kind of drives my wife crazy because she’ll send me a YouTube clip and I’ll try to watch it and say, “Oh, my filter won’t let me watch it.”
That’s an easy tradeoff for me, though. I’d rather have Internet filters up than be in a position where I give in to a temptation and watch something online that I shouldn’t.
I’d like to say I’m 60 years old and I’m beyond any kind of temptation, so I don’t need Internet filters. But I’d rather have it up there.
I have elders in our church who I really think tell me the truth. I’ll call them up if I feel like I’m giving in to discouragement. These men speak truth to me and remind me that we’re never at a point where we could just really despair. I have two or three friends, [including] a coworker here at church, Randy Frazee. He and I share the preaching. When I feel like I’m giving in to to some discouragement, I can turn to him. He’s always got a good word of encouragement.
And then, of course, the daily disciplines of believing that God’s speaking to me through my morning Bible reading, and that I can pray throughout the day. Those are practical things that I’ll always depend on.
We talked a lot about voices as things that steer us off course. Are there voices in your life that you find helpful to listen to, at least typically, or even ones that you wish were louder?
The more praise music I have going the better I do. I have a 25-minute drive, and I love to use that time to listen to Chris Tomlin and Matt Redman—the praise songs that we sing at church. Shane and Shane is a great group.
I think we live in a wonderful day. When I was a kid, the church music was always second-class quality. But now the music we sing in church is astounding and beautiful music. I really find a lot of encouragement when I listen to praise music.
Do you take in any other kinds of media?
I listen to sermons. I listen to podcasts. I probably could do that a lot more, but I listen to books on tape. Right now I’m listening to The Wright Brothers. It’s interesting, and it’s a distraction. It’s something that’s not a spiritual discussion. And I find documentaries to be really interesting. So I watch those and listen to those a lot.
So you’re actually encouraged and helped by distracting yourself sometimes.
Yeah. Somehow it seems like it’s pushing the reset on my brain to do something that’s not a study of Colossians or something on how to improve your marriage. Something a little different.
