As we’ve talked to Christian leaders this past year, again and again we’ve heard, “Do something on motivation! How can we build the enthusiasm and commitment we simply must have?”
Fall programs begin soon. How do you get yourself up for the challenges? How do you attract all the volunteers your church needs? And, once attracted, how do you keep them going?
Killers of motivation intrude throughout the church year: cold water dumped on ideas in committee meetings; tedious board meetings which last too long; overloaded “willing workers” who see others standing back.
How can you replace frustration, apathy, fatigue, and demoralization with energy, enthusiasm, and momentum?
Editor Paul Robbins and publisher Harold Myra met with Doris Freese, associate professor of Christian education, Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, Illinois; Douglas Johnson, executive director, Institute for Church Development, Inc., Ridgewood, New Jersey; Wayne Pohl, administrative pastor, St. Paul Lutheran Church, Trenton, Michigan; William Treadwell, pastor, Faith Baptist Church, Georgetown, Kentucky; and Donald Wellman, pastor, First Church of the Nazarene, Denver, Colorado, to discuss the relationship of motivation to the Christian leader, his or her professional staff, and the membership of the church.
Paul Robbins: Let’s start with personal motivation. How do you develop and sustain motivation for your ministry?
William Treadwell: I was taught in seminary never to resign on Monday. (Laughter) Donald Wellman: You need a clear understanding of yourself, what you want to accomplish.
Robbins: You’re saying motivation starts with a personal game plan?
Wellman: Yes, I want to know what I’m exchanging my life for. Every day I’m exchanging. I flew here last night, I’m here today, and I’ll be home at 5:15 this afternoon. I must know what I am exchanging that time for. I’m in the ministry-though that was not my original intention-because I discovered it was God’s plan for me. God’s will determines where. I’m headed, what I’m all about, and gives me the motivation to keep going. Motivation outside of this isn’t sound.
Douglas Johnson: I define my goals for each day. And every day I discover somebody new living in my clothes. The direction I once set for myself has changed several times. That’s not because I don’t know who I am, but because I’m being led by the Holy Spirit. I like to think I’m organized and on target, but I’m very open to saying, OK, if God wants to change my direction.
A leader has a plan, but he is also sensitive to his own needs and limitations, as well as the needs and limitations of others. About six years ago, I worked for an organization in which I became deeply involved. In fact, I was so involved I found I was losing my family. My kids were growing up without me and I didn’t have things to share with my wife. Suddenly I saw a need to change direction, the need to change my plan.
Robbins: What was taking you from your family?
Johnson: The same forces that engulf most leaders. You get wrapped up in what you are about as you pursue a series of accomplishments for yourself and your organization.
Harold Myra: I’ve sensed in the last year that many pastors come to the point where they say, “Hey, it’s all been a waste. I’ve been working with these people for five years and where’s the growth?”
Treadwell: Let me respond to that. I write evaluation reports regularly. They can be done in two ways: one way is to say we didn’t accomplish anything; the other way is to say we did accomplish something. I’ve found that no matter how poorly an organization or a person has performed, they still have accomplished something. Too often we focus on the negative side, but if you look closely at your congregation, you’ll see it is not the same group it was last year. People have changed and people have grown; new people are involved and the original members have become more mature. Without realizing it, you have cultivated growth.
Wellman: But I think depending on accomplishments as the source of motivation creates problems. I’m not motivated by ecclesiastical or financial achievement. My motivation comes from something within, and that’s what I must keep in touch with.
Doris Freese: If you set goals as standards for personal accomplishment, you lose the sense of selflessness so important to motivation. If, on the other
hand, you see your goals as potential happenings in the lives of people, you’re motivated by seeing how God acts in their lives.
Wayne Pohl: But motivation can be killed by setting unrealistic goals and not learning how to deal with failure. This breeds a terrific amount of frustration. In our community we have 52,000 unchurched people within a six-mile radius of our church. The tendency is to say we’re going to win 5200 next year. We’d love to do it, but it isn’t going to happen. Until we learn to set realistic goals, we’re going to feel frustration again and again. Once a realistic goal is set, I don’t think we’re able to continually motivate people unless we can deal with failure.
One of my favorite stories is told by Ted Engstrom about a man of thirty-two who is suddenly appointed president of the bank. He’d never dreamed he’d be president. So he goes to the venerable old chairman of the board and says, “You know, I’ve just been appointed president. Can you give me some advice?” The venerable chairman says just two words: “Right decisions.” The new president says, “That’s really helpful and I appreciate it, but can you help me even more? How do I make right decisions?” The wise old man says just one word: “Experience.” The young man says, “Well, this is just the point of my being here. I don’t have that kind of experience. How do I get it?” The venerable chairman of the board says tersely: “Wrong decisions.”
That’s where failure can be a benefit. The way we deal with failure can determine how we sustain motivation.
Robbins: What do you consciously do to motivate yourself for the tasks you have as leaders?
Treadwell: Don’t start with goals, start with feelings. I try to take part of Monday mornings to be alone, to get in touch with how I’m feeling about my call and my congregation. I struggle with the fact that I’m forty-six years old. All my life I’ve assumed I was twenty-five. The other night I went to a concert and they had a fellow who was younger than I am directing music written by Bach. You have to be older than I am to understand Bach! (Laughter)
What I’m trying to say is that I don’t think we always understand Erik Erikson’s eight stages of development, in which we do different things at different ages. Also, my feelings come in layers. I have different feelings at different places-at home, at the bank, at church, with the chairman of the deacons, with my denomination. You have to identify your feelings and then own them. I know very few ministers who can say, “I really feel jealous. I’m green-eyed that such-and-such is happening.” But you have to own those feelings. You have to identify them, and admit that a man like me, called of God, a Christian believer, does feel this way.
Then, you have to find a healthful way to report these feelings. I’ve had more trouble here than in any other area of my ministry. Wait until you’ve just “had it,” and you decide the one person in your congregation you can trust to understand is your chairman. So, over supper one night, you tell him about the frustration and the hurts and what’s really happening in your life. You watch his face go aghast.
He pulls inside and eventually leaves your church because he can’t stand for you to be in that kind of shape. It shatters him to see a minister hurt. We aren’t supposed to be hurt.
So, I try to report my feelings appropriately. I can’t dump them on my wife; she has about all she can handle. Sometimes I choose a son, sometimes I choose a daughter, sometimes I choose a barn, or go shout at a horse. But my point is, you have to choose well, for you will report these feelings. You’ll report them in your work, to your staff, or in your preaching. If I can get some sort of inventory done on Monday, then I’m motivated for Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and the rest of the week.
Freese: When I moved from church ministry to teaching, I was scared skinny. The timing was awkward for I was also pressured with work on my doctorate. In a couple of classes I didn’t understand what the teacher was talking about, and I had to come to the place where I admitted I didn’t know what was going on. I needed to become a learner again. It was a freeing and motivating experience to say, “OK, I’m just going to be a learner.”
Robbins: Could we be vulnerable enough to talk about those things that kill motivation within us?
Johnson: It kills me to have a support person, someone on whom I depend heavily, evaluate my work and say, “You really did a lousy job.” Getting back up off the ground after that is difficult.
Treadwell: I’m a fixer. I try to fix anything-including people. It destroys me to get into a situation, especially within my congregation, and watch it get worse and worse until it destructs. I feel helpless, and that pulls me under.
Robbins: How do you find your way back?
Treadwell: I remind myself who I am, and get in touch with why I feel helpless. Obviously, something I was looking for didn’t turn out the way I wanted it to. If I discover I’m expecting more of myself than I should, I confess, “I’m sorry, God; it’s your domain, not mine.”
Wellman: The New International Version paraphrases Galatians 6:4 so well: “Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else.” That’s the issue. If we know ourselves, and we’ve done our best, success doesn’t depend on such things as the number of conversions we see; success means doing God’s work as best we can.
Treadwell: I can handle that when it comes to witnessing. I can handle it when it comes to preaching, proclamation-most things. But when it
comes to a bad family situation, and I see two people heading for a divorce that will destroy each of them and destroy the children, I can’t break loose yet at that point.
Wellman: Have you done your best?
Treadwell: According to your logic, no, because I’m not feeling good about it.
Wellman: But you can’t feel responsible for something you don’t know how to do. I wouldn’t have the faintest idea how to fix this tape recorder. To expect myself to take it apart and repair it is unrealistic. For you to expect yourself to solve every marriage problem is unrealistic. Acknowledge that it’s unrealistic, and do your best.
Johnson: But you’re approaching this rationally. I hear Bill talking about things that I too experience, things that aren’t rational. Failure is often defeat whether you can say you’ve done your best or not.
Robbins: Don, how do you measure when you haven’t done your best?
Wellman: You have to get inside of yourself. You know when you’ve done your best, or when you haven’t.
Johnson: I’m trying to get into your standard, Don. I like for people to do their best, but I don’t understand how it proves either success or failure. Let’s say somebody joins your choir who can’t carry a tune in a bucket. He sings, and everybody weeps; but he honestly does his best.
Wellman: I wouldn’t allow him to be in the choir; I’d steer him toward something else. Then he wouldn’t be exposed to shame and the embarrassment of failure.
Robbins: It seems we’ve been saying that personal motivation comes from a regular inventory of who we are, what our personal feelings are, and how we deal with those feelings. Don says, in addition, that we should do the best we can as measured by our internal standards and leave it there. Doris says we can be motivated by becoming learners again.
Myra: We’ve also said we have to accept our personalities and our feelings. If we’re going through a devastating experience, such as being fired or harshly criticized by people in the congregation, we have to say, “This is like being smashed in a car accident. I can’t deny the pain. I’m going to have to go through these emotions.”
Robbins: Can we talk about “call” for just a moment? There are many questions about a ministerial call. While it’s still an appropriate term in some denominations, it’s played down in others. What do you mean by a call, and how does it affect your motivation?
Wellman: A call is a deep conviction about what God wants me to do with my life. For example, I was in pre-med when I felt a call to ministry. Later, I had a deep conviction to preach, and if I didn’t still have that conviction I wouldn’t last in the ministry for ten minutes.
Pohl: I agree. It’s a divine certainty. It comes through loud and clear. You don’t have to see visions to realize it. I knew I had to serve God in a way that he had chosen instead of a way I had chosen. When frustrations come, I may be uncertain about everything else, but I am certain about my call. That’s the rock.
Wellman: And that’s the rock that will support you when all else fails.
Treadwell: I don’t know if you have time for this or not. I was thinking back over my own hospital experience. I had just finished going over various legal papers with my wife, for we weren’t quite sure what the next morning was going to bring. I walked over to the window and began to take inventory of my life and ministry. I thought about my children. They were healthy, both physically and emotionally; I felt good about that. Then I thought about my ministry. There were some things I would have changed, as well as some things I would not have done differently. I thought about my marriage, about my dreams. As I looked through the window, I watched my wife walk across the parking lot to our car. No other cars were there, just a streetlight that shone through the falling snow. She turned, looked toward my window, and then was gone. It was just me and God. I remember saying to him, “All right, if I get out of here, what will I do?”
On my desk at church were several offers, including an opportunity for a large administrative job, and a seminary post. As I stood there, I went over my call once again, and clearly decided that, even if I left that particular church, I would go on doing what I’d been doing. Then I flashed back to what an old minister had said to me from the pulpit years before. “Look around you. As God’s children, discover what needs to be done more than anything else in the world, and get about it.” While I’d never aspired to be a minister, I’d never seen a greater need for anything in the world. I’ve been reaffirmed in that call several times along the way.
Johnson: I never had any question about my call. It is a given. There have been a lot of times when I wasn’t sure who was “shaking the rod” or where I was going to end up. But there is just no question that I’m going to be a minister wherever I happen to be.
Robbins: Do you go back to this touchstone for motivation?
Johnson: All the time.
Freese: We all go back to the call. I know what it has meant in my life, the fun things I’ve done, and the bathtub of tears I’ve cried. Even though I’m not a pastor, everything I presently do is based upon that time when God called me. I can’t imagine being able to deal with ministry problems without it.
Treadwell: For me, the call of God is like headlights on a car. My vision never goes the full distance; it just goes as far as the lights shine. Sometimes you’ll run right up to the edge of a turn and the lights run off into nowhere; but if you go just a little farther, the lights will turn, and you’ll be able to see just enough roadway to go on. My life call is ministry; the headlights are on, but I can’t see where I’ll be thirty years from now.
Robbins: Let’s move to our second major question. How does the leader create, build, and sustain motivation among his or her staff, the group of people who also have this call?
Treadwell: I have to know my staff well-their homes, their lives, their families, their feelings, their finances-so that I’ll have some idea of how they’ll react to situations. I have to respect their competency. We really have to respect each other as professionals. Then I have to give my staff freedom to work and room to play-their way!
I hate to hear a minister say, “OK, we are going to have a staff softball team and everybody has to play softball.” It may be my thing to fish! Don’t force me into a regiment that has to dress alike, look alike, think alike, and even play alike!
Freese: The staff member must also have the opportunity to verbalize his or her dreams.
Treadwell: Agreed. The dream and the call of the rest of the staff are just as holy, just as important, and just as exciting as that of the senior pastor. The chemistry that occurs when a staff is together should include all of that.
Pohl: It has to be a mutual support community. For staff members to feel good about themselves, you must give credibility to their positions in the eyes of the congregation.
Robbins: What makes a staff team really work?
Pohl: They’re dreaming the same dream.
Treadwell: They’re friends.
Wellman: And that starts with the pastor. If he or she doesn’t feel this way about the staff, he’s not going to create that kind of atmosphere. I look for three things before hiring people: the quality of their spirit, their energy level, and their ability. Quality of spirit is most important. Willingness to work with a teamwork attitude is the first prerequisite of a good staff person. Energy level is always affected by quality of spirit. Great spirits and attitudes produce energy that might not normally be there. Finally, their abilities; and it’s up to me to see that those abilities develop. I must create an atmosphere where staff members are not threatened, where they can talk and share and dream.
Johnson: Allow people to find their niche and grow. You do that by listening. Listening is an art that very few of us have mastered.
Robbins: What can we offer the reader who is experiencing low staff morale right now?
Pohl: In some cases, we need to realize that not every staff combination is going to work. That’s nothing to be ashamed of. To admit it is part of the honesty a staff should have. It’s not necessarily an indictment of anyone to agree, “You may be happier elsewhere; I may be happier elsewhere.”
Treadwell: One clue that things are going badly for a staff is that they quit trying to be together. People start skipping meetings; they avoid social times. If you see this coming, make it a part of the next staff meeting to say, “Look what’s happening to us! Once we were a family. Can anybody tell me what’s happening?” Honest, open communication and discussion is the first step to rebuilding staff morale.
Johnson: Senior pastors are anxious about dealing with conflict. They can deal with it in the congregation sometimes, but within their own staff or families they find it very difficult.
Freese: Sometimes it’s cyclical. The staff person may give some clues that there is difficulty, but the pastor doesn’t read them. Then the staff person loses motivation. The pastor senses he’s pulled away, and responds in a critical way which continues the cycle.
Pohl: Senior ministers need strokes, too. They are strokees as well as strokers.
Treadwell: What I’m reaching for is a staff that is so healthy in its relationships to one another that any single member can flag problems. It won’t always be the senior minister who spots trouble and takes someone off down the corridor and whispers encouragement. In my church, I’m interested in developing a staff that is so sensitive that anybody can say, “Hey, look, we’re drifting!”
You can get so into the dreams of building programs and fund raising that you roll right over the hopes, dreams, and feelings of those closest to you. I remember building, at the same time, a church and a home on a twenty-six-acre clearwater lake. When we moved, I was bemoaning the fact that we were leaving this beautiful lake, where we could swim and enjoy other water sports, when my wife said, “I’m not going to mind leaving.” I said, “Why not?” She answered, “It’s nothing but a motel. I’ve been a maid in a motel all this time. Do you know how many times I have been in that lake? Twice!” There I was, Mr. Sensitivity, flying all over the country, leading groups in how to develop better interpersonal relationships, and I blew it. I want a staff-and a family-that feels comfortable about confronting problems.
Robbins: Let’s talk about motivation as it relates to volunteers. How do you motivate lay workers?
Treadwell: A layman’s motives for service may not be as clear as the professional’s I think some are subconsciously thinking, “I will work off this guilt,” or “If I am good, God will be good to me.” I constantly share my dream with people, for in so doing I discover what interests them. By “dream,” I mean the big picture, the overall mission of the church. I want others to know that they share in the ownership of the dream, and that certain things won’t get done if they don’t do them.
I had lunch with a young fellow the other day, and his two prime interests were missions and broadcasting. I began to wonder how the church could best use him in those areas. By sharing with him the larger picture of the church and its community involvement, he began to talk about how he could creatively use his talents. Genuine, meaningful recognition of ministry interest is motivating.
Robbins: What other forms of recognition would you suggest?
Wellman: I’m not much for buttons and certificates. Personal letters of recognition help. I have a stewardship committee that just closed a six-week-long presentation. Each of the six men gave a five minute testimonial per Sunday morning. That was recognition of their ministry, and it was a challenge to the congregation.
Pohl- At St. Paul’s we work on the basis of the spiritual gifts of the individual in determining volunteer staff responsibility and placement. We have a full-time minister who tests each member for spiritual gifts in an effort to help them discover and utilize their gifts. We don’t view the results as inspired, but it gives us a starting place to help people evaluate their gifts and abilities. And they serve on the basis of their gifts, rather than an opening in the congregation.
Robbins: Or the basis of need?
Pohl: Right.
Treadwell: Isn’t there a difference between that and motivation?
Pohl: It’s motivating to know that you can do something you want to do and feel you have been gifted to do. This year, for the first time in our history, we had eighty positions open for congregational office. It took only eighty-two phone calls to fill those positions. We couldn’t believe it! Because people were asked to serve in areas where they felt gifted, and wanted to exercise their spiritual gift, we had to do less motivating and recruiting.
Freese: How do you guide them toward discovering what their gifts are?
Pohl: There are several tools available. Fuller Evangelistic Association in Pasadena has a number of questionnaires which help members discover their interests and abilities. Obviously, we don’t arbitrarily declare, “You have the gift of craftsmanship; therefore, you have to be a craftsman.” We work with the members to bring them to a place of spiritual self-discovery.
Robbins: Let’s discuss the phrase, “spiritual gifts,” because it means a lot of different things to different people. Some people believe there are nine spiritual gifts, while others believe there are an unlimited number.
Pohl: We involve people in the use of seventeen spiritual gifts.
Robbins: Seventeen as mentioned in the New Testament?
Pohl: Yes, in Ephesians 4, Romans 12, and T Corinthians 12. But we only encourage those gifts that have an avenue for service. In other words, we believe martyrdom is a gift, but it can only be used once, and you can’t build a long-range program upon it. (Laughter) We also believe celibacy is a gift, but we don’t know how to use it for the good of our congregation.
In addition to providing materials that help people determine their spiritual gifts, we encourage them to affirm their gift. They’re free to experiment with their gift in any area of the church.
Robbins; How do you invite people to go through this process?
Pohl: It’s one of the criteria for membership. It’s congregational policy.
Robbins: So when they seek membership, they accept this process.
Pohl: That’s correct. We have a spiritual gifts minister who meets with them to discuss the policy and the process.
Freese: What percentage of your congregation is involved in this program?
Pohl: We’re running about seventy-five percent. We’re not totally satisfied with that percentage, but we are pleased with it.
Myra: You have three-quarters of the people involved in what sounds like a very fine program. Do you ever have problems with members being too busy, or have you generated such excitement that they just want to do this rather than something else?
Pohl: We find busyness a problem for some people, especially those who travel. But most people get very involved in activities they like and can successfully do, and they’re involved as much as they’re able to
Treadwell: Wayne, I think it takes a small group months to find and affirm the spiritual gifts of people, and I get a little nervous at how quickly and mechanically you do it. I’m excited about your percentages and responses, but they seem a little unrealistic. I guess I would like us to clarify the process of discovering gifts.
Johnson: What do you do when you think you’ve identified a person’s gift, and then they get into a service situation and say, “Hey, I don’t like this after all.”?
Pohl: That’s the main reason we encourage experimentation-to find out if the gift is affirmed.
Treadwell: What would happen if you and I talked for awhile, and because of my background, you concluded that I should help on the administration committee; then you found out I hated administration?
Pohl: That’s fine.
Treadwell: But you told me it was a gift from God.
Pohl: I would then say that you don’t have the gift of administration, because everything I understand about gifts indicates they are to be enjoyed as well as employed.
Freese: Low motivation may reflect the level of the development of the gift. As I understand gifts, they are not necessarily mature at the time of discovery. They are developed through practice.
Johnson: I hear Bill saying that if Wayne came to him and said, “Administration is your gift,” he would feel a lot of guilt if he disagreed. So, he might agree and thus be motivated out of guilt. The tendency in the church, as I have perceived it, is that guilt is used by many Christian leaders to motivate people.
Freese: But did Wayne say that the minister actually identified the gift?
Johnson: That’s incidental if the person who is doing the recruiting comes in and says, “This is your gift.”
Pohl: We never say it like that. No one ever goes to a member and says, “You have the gift of teaching, and if you don’t teach you aren’t being faithful to what God has entrusted to you.” We say, “The testing you took indicates that teaching may be one of your gifts. We’d like you to experiment with it to see how you feel about it. Then, we’d like to see if there is affirmation from the body.”
Myra: Wayne, I like the way you expressed that, and I like the fact that you said “one of your gifts.”
Pohl: Yes, we employ what we call a mixture of gifts. If someone has the gift of teaching and administration, that person could be used in a coordinating capacity, or in one of the educational programs, and would understand both areas of responsibility.
Johnson: I hear your words, but I’m still a little confused. Lay people are often unsophisticated, and when they’re told they have a certain gift and that they ought to be practicing it because God wants them to, it smacks of manipulation.
Pohl: I don’t think it’s being manipulative to say to people that God gave them gifts for a purpose, and that they ought to be using them.
Robbins: What do you think the basic difference is between motivation and manipulation?
Treadwell: If I have a free choice to do something, I’ve been motivated. If you take away my free choice, I’ve been manipulated.
Freese: Motivation comes from within a person. In that sense, we don’t really motivate people; we influence them to use the motivation they already have.
Myra: A lot of our comments on motivation relate to larger churches which have many resources. How does the small-church pastor, who does all the preaching and practically everything else, apply himself to motivating volunteers?
Freese: He must motivate through other motivated people. He has to practice ministry through them.
Myra: So he focuses on a certain number of key people. Doesn’t that break down? For instance, maybe he can get ten people working, but if those ten don’t get ten more working what can be done?
Freese: The job isn’t completed until those ten have recruited ten more. It has to keep working in multiples throughout the congregation.
Treadwell: Sermons motivate in the small church more than in the large church. Large-church ministers cannot focus as tightly on the congregation as some of us in small churches. We can come right to the point with our people, and zero in on ideas and talents. We can say, “Tonight I’d like to talk to you about your dreams; we are going to have a dream night.” Our church did this. I opened the sharing time by saying, “I have a radical request. For the sake of principle, and the enrichment of our ministry, I want a woman minister on the church staff. Now, I’m sure you have requests. Next Sunday night, we are going to gather and hear your radical requests.” The following Sunday night we had a huge crowd, and did we ever get some radical requests!
I’d like to tell you what we’re going to do next year to motivate our congregation. When you join our church, we will visit you and take an inventory on what you’ve done and what you would like to do. Then we’ll let the congregation know about your desires and abilities. We’ll call you and discuss specific areas of the church in which your abilities could be used. If you would like to teach twelfth grade, we’ll say, “Here’s what’s involved,” because we are going to write descriptions for each job. We’ll compute the exact hours involved to perform your area of interest. Finally, we’ll ask you to respond with a simple, yes, or no. If you say, yes, the church will officially call you to that ministry task for one year.
Freese: I like the idea that you are going to put something in each person’s hand that describes the job. For instance, if they are going to teach, along with the job description they ought to have a copy of the curriculum so they can examine it and see what they will be teaching.
Treadwell: For too many years we’ve used a “fuss-and-beg” system. We fuss at the congregation until they finally agree to do it; and then, when they start, we beg them not to quit!
Robbins: Let’s quickly summarize this discussion. What are the keys to motivation?
Johnson: Allow people the opportunities to grow. Allow them the freedom to choose jobs they can do well.
Pohl: Approach any group with a great deal of pragmatism, a great deal of optimism, and a great deal of enthusiasm.
Freese: A basic scriptural principle is Ephesians 4:12: “Prepare God’s people for works of service so that the body of Christ may be built up.” The senior pastor and the pastoral staff must see this as their first priority.
Treadwell: The ministry is fun, yet I haven’t heard us talk much about joy. We’ve talked about work, frustration, and motivation. But there is something contagious about going after a dream that is filled with joy. The world has gone bananas; and if we can convince people that we are onto something that’s full of joy, and that there’s room for them, they’ll stampede one another to follow us!
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