INTERVIEW BY TIMOTHY K. JONES
Down a narrow street, not far from the posh shops of historic Nassau Street in Princeton, New Jersey, stands the modern brick office building that houses the Gallup Organization. This impressive structure serves as a center for America’s most recognized public-opinion research organization. Since joining his father’s organization in the midfifties, George Gallup, Jr., has helped lead the Gallup Poll to international prominence.
But George Gallup is not just a household name. He is also a committed Christian eager to see the church respond intelligently to the forces of social change. In his 1979 interview with CHRISTIANITY TODAY (CT, Dec. 21, 1979, p. 10), Gallup predicted that the eighties would be “the decade of the evangelical.” Now, ten years later, he reflects on that crucial time, and looks ahead to the challenges facing the church in the last decade of this century. A newly named CT research fellow, Gallup has also coauthored with Jim Castelli The People’s Religion: American Faith in the 90s, published this month by Macmillan.
You went on record ten years ago to say that you felt evangelicals would profoundly shape religion and public life in the eighties. With the benefit of hindsight, would you say that the eighties were indeed “the decade of the evangelical”?
Yes. People were listening to the evangelical voice in a way they never had before. The numbers of evangelicals did not increase dramatically, but their influence was felt much more. It was certainly felt across the mainline denominations. You see it in the renewal movements in the Episcopal, Presbyterian, and other mainline churches.
And while predictions are hard to make, I think this momentum will continue. Demographics alone would indicate that. Younger people, for example, tend to be more evangelical, while the mainline churches have a higher proportion of older people, which points to a higher drop-off rate in the years ahead. Whatever the figures, I think the influence of evangelicals has extended way beyond their numbers.
What are some indicators that point to a continuing influence?
It is striking that back in 1980 all three presidential candidates—Reagan, Carter, and Anderson—were identified as evangelicals. That was an unparalleled situation. I think the feeling is that evangelicals have come out of the closet and have a lot to say to mainstream religion. It is significant that during the eighties the percentage of people who said they believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ showed a slight upward movement. The ranks of those who say they have made a commitment to Jesus Christ have also grown.
Also, I believe that people in mainline churches are showing a greater recognition that they themselves are, at least creedally, evangelicals. The confessions of faith of the mainline churches present essentially an evangelical message—the Great Commission, the importance of a relationship with Jesus Christ, the authority of the Bible. The creeds are often more evangelical than the people are. So there is among Christians some realization (which appears to be growing) that evangelical beliefs are not such a foreign kind of faith.
There is another intriguing thing we have found in our polls. If we ask people if they are evangelical, defined by having had a born-again experience, believing in the full authority of the Bible, and their having tried at some point to lead a person to Christ, about 20 percent say yes. The figure for the CHRISTIANITY TODAY poll a decade ago, using slightly different categories for definition, was also about 20 percent. But when we ask people, “Are you born again?” one-third of the populace say yes, a very consistent one-third.
So even though people in mainline churches are recognizing that their creeds are “evangelical,” they are not necessarily more prone to label themselves as evangelical.
That appears to be the case. I think there is a lack of awareness of the difference between fundamentalists and evangelicals among uninformed liberal groups who tend to feel that all conservatives are the same. But many people in mainline churches or on the fringe of the church feel they have been born again, or renewed; it’s not something that scares them off.
Does the current religious situation reflect a radical departure from previous decades? How have Americans’ religious beliefs changed?
Remarkably little. Over the last 54 years of scientific polling, religion in America has been remarkably stable, both in terms of religious beliefs and practices. Essentially, America’s religious beliefs have been orthodox, relative to other nations. I would say that the Americans of 1989 are very much like Americans of 1939 in many of their beliefs and values, and even, as a matter of fact, in terms of the percentage of liberals and conservatives. There’s much more stability than people realize.
It is interesting that as the level of education increased in this country—there are probably now about three times as many people with a college background today as there were in the mid-1930s—religious beliefs did not decline. Marx’s and others’ prediction that with more education there would be less attachment to religion simply has not come about. In fact, Americans are unique in that we have a high level of formal education and a high level of attested belief at the same time.
You write in your new book that one of the most significant survey results ever uncovered was that over the past decade or more a consistent third of Americans reported having had some kind of “religious experience” or “a moment of religious insight or awakening that changed the direction of their lives.” Apparently that finding was very dramatic in terms of your expectations.
I said that a decade ago, and I still say it. It’s not getting the attention it should because, I think, these experiences are often dismissed as emotionalism or “holy rollerism.” But they are a very natural part of many people’s journeys.
The strongest believers are those who believe because they feel God has intervened in their lives, that there are miracles, that there are meaningful coincidences, that there is a pattern to their lives, that God has a plan for their lives, that they’ve had miraculous prayers answered. Such experiences are the cornerstones of many people’s faith; three out of ten Americans have had these experiences.
I would add that I think it is extremely important that congregations give people opportunities to talk about these experiences in a church setting characterized by respect. Through Bible studies, fellowship or prayer groups, classes, or small groups, people need to have a place where they can discuss their experiences and doubts.
The danger here, of course, is found in the individualistic approach that Americans take to religion. Americans tend to separate church participation from their own personal relationship with God.
So even if many Americans are “born again,” they are not necessarily solidly grounded in the Christian faith.
Many are just putting a religion together that is comfortable for them and titillates them and is not necessarily challenging. Somebody called it religion a la carte. That’s the central weakness of Christianity in this country today: There is not a sturdiness of belief. There is a lack of a knowledge of Christianity, a lack of awareness of Christian doctrines of atonement, redemption, and grace. Many Americans don’t have a grasp of these things, and yet eight out of every ten say they are Christians. In one poll, we found that three in ten teenagers don’t know the significance of Easter—including two out of every ten regular Sunday-school attendees.
I think people want to grow in their experience of community and grow in their faith, but often they don’t know how. They don’t know the practical steps, or how to live out these religious experiences in their lives.
How can the church help?
First of all, the church must be receptive to these people’s experiences, and then say, “Here’s how you build upon them.” The Unchurched American surveys of 1978 and 1988 consistently indicate that many Americans find their priest, pastor, or rabbi is too caught up with organizational and administrative details and doesn’t give them a ready ear for the incredible things going on in their lives, nor guidance on what it all means for life.
People want a place where they can express doubts in the church setting and not be considered outcasts. They want practical training in how to read the Bible, how to share their faith, how to pray in a meaningful way. And many are saying, in effect, “We want to be heard more,” and, “We want to play a greater role in running the church and free up the clergy to deal with spiritual matters.”
This desire on the part of laity to be more involved and heard in the church was behind the title of our book, The People’s Religion.
Also, because a sizable percentage of Americans experience intense loneliness, the church needs to make a special effort to reach singles and the divorced, and to strengthen and buttress the family. That may mean a shifting of priorities. Certainly international and social issues such as the environment are terribly important. But working at such issues should not be at the expense of dealing head-on with those things that are tearing up families, such as divorce, child abuse, and alcohol and drug abuse.
Do you think evangelical churches are showing signs of being willing to reorient programs in the years to come?
I think so. I think that evangelicals respect personal experience and encourage people to speak out about their own journeys. Evangelicals place great importance on Scripture. And because I think the central problem today is that people are not solidly grounded in their faith, and therefore vulnerable to hedonism, materialism, and new spiritual movements that glorify the self, evangelicals are in a good position to help.
We have in our country a geographic literacy problem. We have a scientific literacy problem. But more seriously, I feel, we have a faith literacy problem. That has to be faced. For us to be prepared for evangelism, we have to know what we’re selling, if you will. Such grounding will be central for the “decade of evangelism” that some denominations are observing in the nineties, including mine, the Episcopal Church.
How has Americans’ interest in faith and belief affected or not affected their behavior?
On the plus side, religion has profoundly affected our society in terms of volunteerism. We did a big study for the independent sector and found that churches give more money than foundations or businesses do. The church is the biggest supporter of the volunteer effort, in terms of manpower and money, but also in terms of energizing society. If we didn’t have this religious tradition in our country, we would not have the powerful volunteerism that keeps us together. In that very obvious way, then, religion has played a tremendously important role.
The church has helped, too, in terms of reducing antisocial behavior and encouraging prosocial behavior. There have been a lot of studies, and we’re doing some right now, that indicate how important the religious group is in directing and influencing society, particularly when you look at those who are deeply committed, who have a transforming faith.
On the negative side, you really don’t find much difference between the churched and unchurched in terms of cheating, tax evasion, and pilferage, largely because there is a lot of social religion, “extrinsic” religion as psychologist Gordon Allport called it. But when you get to those who have a deeply transforming faith (we’ve developed a scale to try to put calipers on that), then you find exciting differences in terms of concern about the betterment of society, involvement in charitable activities, tolerance for other groups, and ethical behavior. It is intriguing to note that this group is far, far happier than the rest of the population. All this has to be measured further—we’re working on a book right now called The Saints Among Us. The thesis is that there are only roughly 10 percent of the populace that falls into this category, and that these people are the real movers in our society, quiet movers, who are having a disproportionately powerful impact on society, not only in what they do, but in their example and how they live out their Christianity.
That’s an intriguing thesis for a book.
I think it is. One reason that Christianity hasn’t grown the way it should is that people don’t see Christians as that different from the rest of the population. But the people in this 10 percent, it would appear, are truly different.
The People’s Religion suggests some encouraging possibilities for an increase in church attendance over the next decade. What is the basis of your optimism? And who will this involve?
Demographics explain much of it; young people show a strong interest in religion.
Another cause for optimism is that the steps that can be taken to increase attendance are quite practical. You don’t have to convince the unchurched theologically. Many already evidence high levels of belief in God, heaven and hell, the Second Coming, the divinity of Jesus Christ, and so on. The unchurched are overwhelmingly believers.
Seventy-five percent, three of every four Americans, either are now or were what we call “churched.” By that we mean people who are either members of a church or have attended church in the last six months (in addition to religious holidays). The odds are that they are going to come back.
If I were to indicate just one step for any church to take in order to grow, it would be simply to ask its parishioners to bring somebody to church the next Sunday. Only 4 out of every 100 Americans are completely nonreligious—that is, have no religious preference, do not go to church, and say religion is not very important in their lives.
What led you to the conclusion that in the nineties evangelical Protestants will come to outnumber nonevangelical Protestants in this country?
Again, the demographics point to this. While our polling over the past decade indicated no dramatic increase in their numbers, evangelicals, as I said ten years ago, put much greater emphasis on evangelism and reaching out. Because it is a very important part of their beliefs, evangelicals have many more people out sharing their beliefs and encouraging people to get involved. There is more excitement about what they believe, and it’s noticed. That generates enthusiasm.
Lonely, Consistent Individualists
Some findings from The People’s Religion that may surprise you:
• The religious beliefs and practices of Americans have changed remarkably little in the last half-century. Church membership and attendance figures are identical to what they were in the 1930s. The same percentage of Americans today as in the late forties believe in an afterlife. By some measurements, Americans are even more religious. In the 1930s, for example, 10 percent of Americans read the Bible daily; in the 1980s, it was 15 percent.
• Americans remain highly independent in their religious lives. The vast majority of Americans believe it is possible to be a good Christian or Jew without attending a church or synagogue. When asked, “Who do you think should have a greater influence in determining the future of religion in America: the clergy, or the people who attend services?” 61 percent said the laity. Twelve percent said the clergy should have the greater role, with the remainder saying both should share it equally.
• Gallup surveys show that as many as four in ten Americans admit to frequent or occasional feelings of intense loneliness. Churches sensitive to people’s need for community and belonging are in a good position to address this need.
• When asked, “Do you expect to attend church or synagogue more often or less often during the next five years?” almost half said they expected to attend more often. The most significant finding had to do with the high percentage of those under 30 years of age—59 percent—who predicted they would attend more often in the next five years. Those most likely to say so were blacks (69 percent), southerners (58 percent), Hispanics (54 percent), Baptists (53 percent), and Southern Baptists (52 percent).
By Timothy K. Jones.
What changes in society are in store in the next decade that churches need to be aware of and preparing for?
Alcohol and drug abuse has to be very high on the list of priorities for the church because it affects the family and it affects everything. And it’s a crisis situation. Churches can do a lot more than they are doing in the area of prevention, such as training pastors to be better equipped to deal with these issues.
The sex-related issues are going to be among the most important issues facing all churches in the foreseeable future. Abortion, AIDS, premarital sex, homosexuality, all those are going to be at the vortex of the problems confronting all churches. There’s no question about it.
And churches are going to need not to shrink from addressing those issues.
Exactly. They need to address them head-on. A lot of churches back off from those issues.
Also, you could hardly find a more basic problem in our society than youth unemployment, which is very high among minority groups and in the major cities. That problem leads to low self-esteem, which contributes to alcohol and drug abuse, which leads to crime and lawlessness. Until as a society we meet the joblessness problem head-on, we’re just storing up a lot of problems for ourselves in the nineties and beyond.
So your optimism is tempered by the awareness of some things that need to change.
True. But these are the kinds of things that don’t have to be left up to chance. I tend to be optimistic because I think there are lots of obvious things that churches can and will do to make a profound difference in society in the years ahead. There is nothing mysterious about it. Also, as Christians, we often forget to pray for things. But God is accessible, and will help us in our efforts, whatever they are.
