The stage is lit with eerie blue and brown lights. Dancers and singers are dressed in flesh-colored leotards. The music is sickeningly seductive, as is the serpentine choreography. Mefistofele stands on a rock-like mock altar and bids Faust to kneel before him. Suddenly an overlarge chalice appears, and a member of the audience gasps. A black mass of sorts is taking place. The scene: the witches sabbath, part of the opera “Mefistofele” by Boïto. The company: the New York City Opera.
Robert Hale is a ten-year veteran of that company and once refused the role of Mefistofele in that opera. But he is better known in evangelical circles as the baritone half of the Hale and Wilder duo. For several weeks each year he and Wilder do a sacred concert tour in churches throughout the country. This summer, for example, they visited fifty-five churches and conferences in sixteen states. Hale and Wilder record with Word records; they have sung at Billy Graham crusades. Hale is unique among musicians. He has a successful career as what some would call a witness musician. He also has a successful career as an opera singer.
Next season he will perform his first Wagner opera, “The Flying Dutchman,” and will sing the world premiere of a new Gian Carlo Menotti opera, “Juana La Loca,” with Beverly Sills in San Diego. The performance will be nationally televised. During the New York City Opera’s stay in Washington, D.C., in early May he sang two of his thirty-three roles: the comic role of Don Basilio in “The Barber of Seville” by Rossini and Escamillo in Bizet’s “Carmen.” We met in his small dressing room under the Opera House at the Kennedy Center, and talked about both his careers. The following is an edited version of our discussion.
CHERYL FORBES
Forbes. How did you and Dean Wilder get together?
Hale. We first met when we were cast to sing together in an opera at the New England Conservatory of Music in Boston. We both studied there. I met him at a rehearsal. We discovered we had both attended small Christian colleges and quickly became very good friends. Later that year we were in Chicago again, singing with Boris Goldovsky. I was invited to do a sacred concert at a church there. I asked Dean to come with me, and that’s when we sang together for the first time. Right from the beginning I thought we had a unique situation. We sang together several times in the next two years, while we were also doing a lot of opera. Finally we decided to do a tour together. So the Hale and Wilder team really began in 1966 when we did our first tour. Since then we’ve done over 1,600 concerts together, and made many recordings. We usually tour during January and the summer. We’ve gone all over this country, and to Canada, the Orient, and Europe. It’s been a great way for us to reaffirm our Christian commitment. We’ve also had the advantage in return of hearing a lot of great preachers and ministers at various conferences and churches. It’s been a rich and rewarding time for us.
Forbes. What’s your church affiliation?
Hale. I was raised in the Church of the Nazarene. I’ve been attending an evangelical Presbyterian church. However, I’ve just moved to the San Diego area in California and haven’t yet decided on a church out there.
Forbes. Does it bother you that most evangelicals only know you as the Hale half of Hale and Wilder?
Hale. No. When I first started doing concerts with Dean, Frank Boggs wondered if that was the right decision for me. He thought I might lose my identity by becoming part of a team. But that never worried me. Wilder and I can do unique things in church music. Our voices blend well; we have the same attitudes toward the kinds of music we sing. And we pick all our own music—a very careful process. We want music that reflects our theology and our attitudes toward Christianity, something of ourselves we can give the audience and that in some sense is a challenge to sing.
Forbes. How did you get into opera?
Hale. Through the back door. I sneaked in. I never had any intention of being an opera singer. When I graduated from a small Christian college I was going to be a minister of music and teach school. Incidentally, the school did not encourage voice majors to consider opera. I was told I did not have an operatic voice anyway. On my senior recital I sang only one song in a foreign language. After graduation I served as a minister of music and taught school. It was in my graduate studies and later in Germany while in the army that I finally had a chance to sing my first opera. I was totally fascinated by opera’s marriage of drama and music. David Dekker, U.S. Army Special Services director, was involved with producing The Elixir of Love and asked if I’d like to audition. I didn’t even know any arias at the time, so I sang something from Messiah. I got the part, and found it a satisfying and stimulating experience. Of course, I’ve never done the opera again, and it’s certainly not a part I’d choose for myself today. At that time I was primarily a recitalist. But opera set me free as a performer. I love to communicate with the audience through another character—I’m not sure what that says about myself. So that’s how I got started. I came back to this country, got my M.A. in music, and studied opera in graduate school at Boston University and the New England Conservatory of Music. I didn’t know much about opera when I got out of the army, but I’d heard that the East Coast was the place to be. So I packed up my things and moved there. Then I won several singing competitions. I won the National Association of Teachers of Singing (NATS) Singer of the Year competition in 1963. In 1964 I won the Metropolitan Opera Regional Auditions but, unfortunately, got sick and didn’t do well in New York. And I got a Rockefeller Foundation grant, and a few others. When I did the Rockefeller Foundation audition they asked if I’d ever thought about singing for the New York City Opera. Of course I’d been very aware of the company for years through what I’d heard about it, though I’d never seen one of their productions. I had doubts about singing for them. I don’t know. Maybe I was timid or something. I didn’t want to walk in there and ask, “Can I audition for your outfit?” No, I wouldn’t do that. But the Rockefeller people asked if I’d mind if they set up an audition. I said no, they did, and the company offered me a contract. I began my professional career the winter of 1967. I was thirty-three.
Forbes. Do you ever feel the need to justify yourself as an opera singer? I know you don’t publicize yourself as one for your sacred concerts.
Hale. I was reared in a Nazarene church in the back woods of Louisiana—one of five children. My mother, who is now 79, was the stalwart Christian leader in our family. I remember her rocking me to sleep, singing simple Gospel songs like “Constantly Abiding.” That’s the music I was raised with. I wasn’t denied educational opportunities, but there simply was no opera or classical music around. What I knew about music I knew from my church and my home. Where I came from no one would ever have expected me to end up in the kind of environment I live in today. I can’t help believing that a lot of doors were opened for me all along the way, that things came about through providential intervention. As I said, opera was not my chosen career. I happened to have a chance to sing opera while in the service, and just to have something interesting to do I agreed to participate. I found out I had a flair for opera and it gave me a great sense of accomplishment. I began to study and went from there. I think Christians should strive to be the very best and for me the very best is opera. God gave me the talents and gifts best suited for opera. The highest attainment for me is to be a good opera singer, to attempt to sing the better roles, to reach the highest vocal level I can. Every Christian must do the most with what God has given him. It really goes back to the parable of the talents. Occasionally I’ve had Christians in various churches ask why I don’t give up what they consider my secular career as an opera singer and sing for the Lord full time, to spend all my energies on sacred concerts. But that would never be a vocal challenge for me. Even though Dean and I choose our music very carefully it simply is not as demanding as singing opera. I’m entrusted with these gifts. What I do with them is important. I feel very obligated at that point to do my very best and develop my voice to its full potential. I think I’ve done my best. Whether I become a superstar or not is unimportant to me. I’m happy that I’ve been given the opportunity to sing what suits me best. Each of us has to live his life as he thinks God wants him to. Some people don’t see life that way and they want to impose their wishes on others and bind them into their own tight little molds.
Forbes. Is that why you don’t publicize yourself as an opera singer on the evangelical church circuit?
Hale. Not exactly. Although there are a few people who would come just because I sing opera, a great many more would stay away. When people find out I’m an opera singer, they’re usually impressed. But at the same time they say, “just don’t sing any of that stuff for us.”
Forbes. So you don’t put classical music on your programs?
Hale. In small quantities. We usually do a Verdi or Purcell piece or something from Handel or Haydn. The reactions have been interesting. Those are the pieces people invariably mention when they thank us for the evening. But we generally stick to the solid hymns of the church—like the ones the Wesleys wrote.
Forbes. What about contemporary Christian music?
Hale. We’ve done very little of it, though we included some Kurt Kaiser songs in a most recent recording. We can’t sing rock music, and that’s much of what’s being written today.
Forbes. Isn’t it unusual for a singer to be in two very opposite forms of entertainment, in your case opera and witness music? Or don’t you think of your church tours as entertainment?
Hale. When Dean and I first began touring together it upset us when a minister introduced us as the entertainment for the evening, or as Christian entertainment, or told the congregation they were really going to enjoy themselves. I think it still disturbs Dean. But it doesn’t bother me as much any more. Yes, we’re trying to make a statement about our Christian beliefs through our singing, but you can’t get away from the fact that we’re also performing those songs. It was tough to adjust ourselves to applause, particularly after what had been for us a deeply spiritual song. In fact, it’s still a little hard for me to accept. It’s much easier after a rousing, march-like song with a big splashy finish.
Forbes. But both you and Dean are trained singers, performers. You know what vocal techniques to use to get a certain effect, which in turn causes a certain intended response in the audience. Surely you don’t forget all that simply because you’re performing in a church rather than a concert hall or an opera stage.
Hale. No. I wouldn’t be honest if I said we did. We have spent a lot of time learning how to sing. We feel it our obligation as performers to blend all facets of our art in a sacred concert. Perhaps it’s the motivation that’s different.
Forbes. Why? Don’t you want the opera-going audience to believe in the character you’re playing just as much as you want the church congregation to believe in the words you sing? And isn’t that part of being an artist—that you are conscious of and purposeful about how you use your instrument?
Hale. Yes, that’s true. An artist puts all of himself in what he’s singing at the time. I’m happy that we bring pleasure to our audiences. Many of them would never go to a secular concert or opera. And that’s too bad. I think some Christians find it hard to enjoy themselves.
Forbes. Well, what would going to an opera, for example, do for people?
Hale. This goes back to what I was saying before, about Christians striving to develop, use, and share their total capabilities or God-given gifts. I think they also should know the very best they can, too. We should be well educated, well informed, and as well rounded as is possible. And that means knowing more than rock or gospel music. We need to broaden ourselves and expose our children to the purer forms of music—among which are great choral works, chamber music, symphonic music, and of course opera.
Forbes. How would you answer the person who is only interested in things that will bear directly on living a Christian life? It’s hard to see how opera does that.
Hale. That’s a good question—a hard one. I don’t know that I have the answer. In any performer-audience situation both are experiencing the exhilaration of the inner spirit. That’s hard to label either religious or non-religious. For many people the beauty of a God-given talent interpreting inspired music by classical composers is an experience of worship. In every person’s life there is a need for experiencing beauty in art, literature, and music. I think it draws one nearer to God. Beauty never needs justification. As someone once said, “Beauty is its own excuse for being.”
Forbes. What about the person who has little money, or who objects to spending fifteen or twenty dollars on a ticket? That money could go to missions. You just sang in a benefit performance of The Barber of Seville and the tickets were $50 a piece.
Hale. Well, part of that was tax deductible. And there are usually cheaper tickets, such as standing room, special student prices, and reduced rates for senior citizens, for example. But people don’t need to spend a lot of money to enjoy at least the music of opera. Now, opera is meant to be seen live, but you can hear opera live over the Texaco broadcasts of the Metropolitan Opera from December to April.
Forbes. You said that you thought Christians ought to be the best educated people they can be, given their native abilities. Do you think a person needs education to appreciate classical music or opera?
Hale. We sing in all kinds of churches, from those in the back woods to city churches. When we sing a piece from Handel those people who have little education appreciate it just as much as those who know the composer. It isn’t necessary to be trained to enjoy beauty.
Forbes. Is that because of the music or the performers?
Hale. I like to think it’s the music, but maybe it’s a little of both. Certainly the emotion of the song will affect someone no matter how many courses or degrees he has.
Forbes. How do you answer those people who say that opera is an immoral profession? Opera plots are so often concerned with rape, adultery, and sin in general.
Hale. Boris Goldovsky, who runs a famous opera institute for young singers, said once in a lecture that opera was the most moral of the art forms. And he’s right. There’s no mistaking the good from the bad characters in opera. The composer and librettist tell us that right away. And eventually the wicked are punished and the good people prosper. Not only are the plots moral, but to sing opera well demands a thoroughly clean and moral life. For me, it’s the one profession in which it is easiest to live a wholesome life. Opera demands too much physically and emotionally. You shouldn’t drink, smoke, stay out late, eat the wrong foods. You need plenty of vitamins, rest, and exercise. Singers are very concerned with their mental and physical health. They have to be. A disciplined life is the life of a singer.
Forbes. As a Christian, is it difficult to play some of the roles you do? A bass-baritone so often is cast as the evil character. You sing Mephistopheles in Gounod’s Faust, for example.
Hale. That’s true, I play some despicable characters. I also play many pleasant and admirable ones. In a real sense opera plots reflect both good and evil in life as it actually is. When I play a character like Mephistopheles I try to be as evil as I possibly can. I must be believable. But that’s not me on stage doing those things. I’m pretending, playing a role. And as soon as the final curtain falls I go back to being Bob Hale.
Forbes. You have no difficulty getting out of roles the way some singers like James McCracken do?
Hale. None whatsoever. When the opera is over so is the role—until the next time. But for that two-and-a-half or three hours I am that character. Yet always in the back of my mind 1 know I’m only acting. Anyone who wants to get a vivid picture of evil need only go to opera. Boito’s Mefistofele is a good example. Tito Capobianco’s brilliant production gives us a horrifying picture of sin, and, I think, shows some theological insight. I think that’s part of what Goldovsky meant when he said opera is moral. It never paints a romantic or pretty picture of evil. It shows sin in all its ugliness, but it does so with artistic taste.
Forbes. Opera right now is competing with the highly technological art of the cinema, and it’s therefore getting more and more realistic. Nudity is cropping up. Last season the Washington Opera’s production of Thais by Massenet included a topless ending to act one. How can a Christian performer avoid this?
Hale. I have never been involved with any nudity in opera. I’m very careful about the roles I choose. Of course, I’m now in a position where I can be careful. When I started ten years ago there wasn’t so much emphasis on realism. A young singer today might not find the same situation. A singer just starting out can’t always refuse roles. But if you’re good enough, and explain why you won’t do certain things, something can usually be worked out. I have on occasion accepted a part while reserving the right to avoid any stage direction that compromises my basic beliefs.
Forbes. Is there a growing number of Christians in opera?
Hale. Yes. I’m meeting more and more. My colleagues know I’m a Christian, but I try not to walk around wrapped up in a supercilious air of piety. And I don’t force my Christian convictions on my colleagues. God made me a singer first, not an evangelist. I witness through my singing and my life. However, there have been times when the situation seemed right to talk about spiritual matters. Then I haven’t hesitated. Some Christian singers I know have alienated their colleagues by an over-zealous attempt to convert them.
Forbes. What do you think of the idea of Christian opera?
Hale. I think it’s a great idea, but I don’t think it will happen. And I can’t see that it would differ that much from opera in the standard repertoire. It would be able to point more specifically to the source of healing for sin. But if people mean by Christian opera another tool for evangelism, with generous financing, I can’t see that working for now. Perhaps in the future young talented composers will be able to bring together good music with Christian plots.
Forbes. What advice would you give someone who wants a singing career?
Hale. You should be very honest with yourself in evaluating your talents and appraising what you actually have to offer in a career. There are several points at which to do this. One is to evaluate the basic talent. Is the voice outstanding? Have people said, “I like your voice; it’s better than everybody else’s,” or something like that. Secondly, you must have musicianship, should be innately musical. And you should love it. Also, you must be healthy, both physically and emotionally. You can get yelled and screamed at and survive it—you don’t have thin skin. Since you know where you stand you can take some tough treatment once in a while. You also know you can endure auditions. Any young singer has to do many auditions before he gets to the place where he doesn’t have to audition for parts any more. To me an audition is more painful than any opera I’ve ever sung in. You’re not accepted when you walk on the stage to audition. Finally, you can’t have any zeros. For example, you’re good in all other areas, but you have tremendous stage fright. Or you often sing flat, or you have a very difficult time memorizing. The best way to evaluate your talents is to go to people who are qualified to judge. Work with them, or sing for them, and let them help you determine what you should do. But most important, you must have lots of drive and determination.
Forbes. So even considering the problems and competition you recommend opera as a career?
Hale. Definitely, provided a person qualifies in the basics I just outlined. I find it a most rewarding existence; my operatic career is my basic calling. At the same time I have never lost the thrill of communicating my faith in God through a simple Gospel song. There has been an added dimension to my career by periodically sharing through sacred concerts the joy of salvation.
Paul D. Steeves is assistant professor of history and director of Russian studies at Stetson University in Deland, Florida. He has the Ph.D. from the University of Kansas and specializes in modern Russian history.
