An Interview With Festo Kivengere1Festo Kivengere is probably the best-known product of the East African revival movement. Since 1962 he has worked as an evangelist around the world. He is the leader of the African Enterprise evangelistic team in East Africa, and since 1972 he has also been the Anglican bishop of Kigezi, with headquarters at Kabale, Uganda. He holds the M.Div. from Pittsburgh Seminary. The following is a condensation of an interview by the editors ofChristianity Today:
Question. What is the East African revival, and why has it lasted over forty years?
Answer. Can I explain? This is a question I have been asked repeatedly for over twenty-five years, and all I have ever been able to do is to share what I have seen. The only explanation I can give is that it is God’s work. It is not a technique. It is a movement that cannot be contained. It is renewal within renewal. It is an attitude toward the Lord, toward the Bible, toward the fellowship, and toward the Spirit. It has always been open to a fresh touch.
Q. What does this revival mean to the people involved in it?
A. It is when Christ becomes a living, risen Lord in the life of a believer. For the non-believer, it is when he is brought into a confrontation with Christ and accepts him as Saviour, thus completely changing his life morally and socially. In other words, revival is when Christ becomes alive in a life, changing that life. The person is born again, and if he has previously had that experience, then his life is changed in such a way that it affects all his relationships.
Q. Is it visible to an outsider?
A. Absolutely! Go back to a village a week after a man comes to the Lord in a meeting in the market. The whole village knows something about it. He has paid the debts he owes. He has gone to people he hated and said, “I’m sorry. I’m a changed man.” He has apologized or asked for forgiveness. He’s now telling them what Christ means to him. He has carried his new belief into his business practices. In other words, it isn’t something he sits on as a comfortable experience. If anything, it is terribly uncomfortable.
Q. How has this differed from other revivals in history?
A. It may be the continued willingness of those who have been revived to be renewed by the Spirit of God. At the Kabale convention last year, celebrating the fortieth year of the revival in that area, we heard up-to-date testimonies from people who were brought to Christ as early as 1930. They had tremendous freshness; yet they had been winning souls for thirty-five or forty years. They have remained open to what the Spirit may want to say to them in the present situation. They learned that when they got into a rut God had to turn them out of it so they could breathe again. The tendency to get into certain patterns can stifle the work of the Spirit and create pockets of hardness. Continued breaking and bringing new streams of life have been the means God has used.
Q. Amid this openness are there some agreed points of emphasis?
A. Yes, three. The basis was the Bible. Christ was at the center. And the Word was not just read; it was obeyed.
Q. How has the Bible been used?
A. It has been preached from Genesis to Revelation. Men who have never been to seminary have taught it as the living book. I know people who were converted at the age of forty-five, born again when they were illiterate. They taught themselves how to read immediately. Even before they could read they quoted what had been quoted to them. They would get the verses in their heads and then go stand up and preach them without having a Bible. They preached it without hesitation, and they allowed it to work on them. They have won hundreds and thousands of people, and I believe their power lay in their attitude of feeding on the Word. Of course, they have no commentaries, so as you can imagine they are limited. But the amazing thing is that they can see the whole spectrum of the Bible in such a way that one must agree they are in fellowship with the Author, the Holy Spirit. To them it is God’s Word. It speaks to them, and they do something about it. It convicts them, and they repent. It fills their hearts with joy.
Q. Explain, please, the centrality of Christ in the revival.
A. All sorts of things have happened: dreams, visions in the night, conviction of sin; but no one ever put these above Christ and him crucified and moving alive among us. We had our excesses, but they were corrected as we kept our eyes on the Word incarnate and preached the written Word.
Q. What about the third point you mentioned, obedience to the Word?
A. The living Christ in the Bible spoke living words to living persons in living situations. This meant that those who listened had to do something about it. It made men move. It made them pay debts of love and money. It made people go and speak to neighbors out of compelling love and concern for their souls. The Word compelled men and women to evangelize.
Q. Has this evangelization spilled across tribal and national boundaries?
A. Oh, yes. It has gone into all parts of Uganda, Ruanda, Burundi, Kenya, Tanzania, and Malawi, and into parts of Ethiopia. And it has had an impact in such faraway places as Indonesia.
Q. Is it interdenominational?
A. Initially, the thrust was in the Church of England, but the fire began to move, and people shared with those in other denominations. It went from church to church, denomination to denomination. Some churches, like the Lutherans, found it hard to move fast at first. They were looking at it from a doctrinal point of view. The very staunch evangelical groups found it terribly hard to accept at first look. Doctrinal loopholes could be found. It didn’t have a neat theological approach. They felt that things might go wild. Imagine 300 people lying on the ground weeping and crying and shouting and shrieking in church. Invite that sort of thing into your church?
Q. They were afraid of enthusiasm?
A. Exactly! Those who saw this considered it too risky. They did not know how to control it.
Q. Were the top leaders of the Anglican church involved from the beginning?
A. No. That would be great for Anglicans if God blessed the men with commanding positions and influence. But he came and blessed girls and elderly women and boys and nobodies, and the ministers remained very dry. Of course, the ministers were embarrassed by what these lively Christians said, and they opposed the revival. Until the pastor was blessed, he had to oppose it. Why did God choose to work “through the back door”? Why not deal with the big man so things could move easily?
Q. How did the “big men” get involved?
A. One example was in Tanzania where some of us went to witness. The doors were shut against us repeatedly. The African pastor got up in the cathedral pulpit one Sunday when the church was packed and said, “Now, look: I want to warn you against some strangers who have recently moved in. They talk big words about salvation, but they are wolves in sheep’s skin. Be careful of them.” And you could see the congregation turn and look at us. Sunday after Sunday this man did not preach anything. Finally, he got up one morning and said, “This is my last warning. If any of you is caught up in this talk and business of salvation I will excommunicate you for six months to show you how wrong you are.” There was silence. We walked outside. We were becoming bitter.
Then the Lord spoke to me and said, “You owe deep love to that man. You need to be helpful. Go to his church, and do what you can, and love him.” We protested that it would be difficult, but we went on for a few weeks, for a month, for three months, for five months. Finally he stood before his congregation one day with tears streaming down his cheeks. He said to them, “Months ago I told you that if any of you experienced this salvation they were talking about I would excommunicate you. I have been saved. Now you can excommunicate me if you like.” We could hardly believe our ears. Public testimony! This man was born again because revival started. But it didn’t start easily.
Q. Why has this been accepted by leaders of the mainline denominations in East Africa, such as the Anglican, when it might not have been accepted elsewhere?
A. It was not accepted at first. That is a part of the picture that has not been reported widely. In Uganda, for instance, twenty students who had only two months or less to go before ordination were expelled from our theological college. They were expelled simply because the warden was not agreeable to their experience, and the bishop agreed with him. I got a lovely letter about a year ago from that bishop, who is now retired in England. He has been deeply blessed in the years since that. We went to see him when we conducted a mission in England. It was interesting that before revival broke out in the country he had asked for missions of evangelistic teams to spread throughout Uganda. He was the only bishop there then, and he had a vision, but many of his ministers were not born again. Then God began to move, and people were repenting of their sins. People were in tears. A respectable part of the church was embarrassed. Ministers did not like it. This poor man, the bishop, was afraid, and he shied away from what he had actually initiated. He turned around and said, “This can’t be of God; it must be of the Devil.” So for twenty-five years he opposed it, but the position of the hierarchy didn’t stop the movement.
I was brought into it when things in the church were really thick and hard, when licenses were being withdrawn from ministers and the revival groups were not permitted to meet in churches. But God did something unique. After the bishop himself suggested that we leave and form another denomination, we went and had prayer. The Spirit of God said, “Don’t you move.” So, our answer was, “This is our church here, and we stay whether we speak or not.” We witnessed, people suffered every week, and one minister after another came into the blessing of God. Now more than 85 per cent of the clergymen know Jesus Christ as their Saviour, as do all our bishops.
Q. To what extent has the charismatic emphasis been a part of the East African revival?
A. None. There are now some charismatic groups in Africa, but they seem to have come through European and American missionaries. In one country I visited, a man told me, “We had a revival.” When I asked him when, he replied that it had been three years earlier. Then I asked him exactly what he meant by “had a revival.” His response was that it was the extraordinary experiences, the unusual manifestations, and now that they were over, so was the “revival.” But real revival is Jesus Christ himself. Now, I do not despise the manifestations God has sent to shake people up. Praise God for them! I have told people who have been involved: “Don’t think the manifestations are going to feed you. They shook you up so that you may go to the bread of life.” Perhaps the only contribution I have made to some of these groups is that I have reminded them not to overlook the fundamental issues.
Q. You have spoken of persecution from within the church; has there also been persecution from outside it?
A. Yes, in Kenya, for instance. Revival broke out there in 1937, but the Mau Mau revolution started in 1952. There is a strong church in Kenya today because many Presbyterians, Methodists, Anglicans, and others had been blessed in the revival and then gave such marvelous testimonies during the emergency. So many Christians were exposed to these terrible experiences and massacres, but they stood the test of time. The church went through the fire. It was not originally a persecution directed at people because they were Christians. But the believers who knew Jesus and who were witnessing had a hard choice. The Mau Mau got many members from the churches. Those who were in the Kikuyu tribe had a very hard time keeping out of the revolutionary group. The Mau Mau were fighting to liberate the land from white domination. Then the British would come and say, “We want people to fight against these terrible murderers, so join our forces. We’ll give you guns, and your local militia can protect your people from these killers.” Many of those who had been affected by the revival could not join either side. They often agreed with the Mau Mau that their land had been taken from the Kikuyu unjustly, but they also held that Jesus died for men, never for the land. Those who refused to take sides suffered. The British arrested them as supporters of the Mau Mau, or the Mau Mau killed them.
Q. What should Christians say in such situations, where neo-colonialism can be as bad as the old colonialism?
A. We have only one message: the disease is not domination by white men. It is the disease of sin in the human heart, which makes any man the exploiter of another. This is a clear message, and we should not hesitate to make it clear to people wherever we are. I wish there were more gospel preaching in those terms, not in political terms.
Q. Do you mean in Africa, or elsewhere?
A. Everywhere! God’s power knows no boundaries, of course, and we have heard amazing testimonies from many countries of the world. A man from the eastern part of the Soviet Union was a guest at our Kabale convention last year. He had been in prison in Siberia for eight and a half years and then was kicked out of the nation. He gave a lovely word of testimony in which he told us that Khrushchev had said on television in 1970, “I will show you the last Christian in Russia.” He said that since then there has been a wonderful time of revival in the midst of pressure, the church has doubled, and Khrushchev is no more.
Q. Have you seen a similar response in the places where you have preached?
A. Yes. There is a real movement of God now among the young people of Kenya, for instance. There is evidence of a new openness to the Bible in some of the African independent churches. I have never seen such a response to Christ-centered messages as I saw at a university mission organized by students in Ghana. Some pastors from Zaire told me about thrilling things in their churches. In Japan, where Christians are such a tiny minority and often very formal, I sensed a hunger for more vitality and simple, direct presentation of the Gospel. In Germany last year I spoke to a crowd of evangelicals estimated to total 35,000, and we had a wonderful time. Since then I have heard that there is a drawing together of the Christians for the single purpose of presenting Christ.
Q. Do you see any of this as a result of the 1974 Lausanne Congress on World Evangelization?
A. Some of it is. The congress has shaken the established church. In Germany I met a number of Lutheran bishops who want more evangelistic outreaches, and they quote the vision of Lausanne.
Q. You were invited back to the city of Lausanne in 1975 to preach at the 700th anniversary of their cathedral. What did you find?
A. You can imagine a team of two Africans who are conducting an evangelistic mission in Lausanne, of all places! You know what the Swiss people are like. We told them we appreciated their reserve, and then we had tremendous times together with them. The line God has given us is to present to any community the message that has the power to break down the barriers. Christ has entered my culture in Africa, and Swiss culture, and German culture, and all the rest. And out of it he brings brothers and sisters without destroying their cultures. Rather, he releases them from their cultural barriers. In Europe, they need fresh air, and they seemed to appreciate my approach.
Q. What did you discover in your mission in England?
A. We had quite a remarkable response. Our ministry was to the churches, and there were no big crusades. In some places, such as Manchester and Bristol, it was beautiful. Ministers were on fire; there were many young people; churches were packed; testimonies were given. There are wonderful signs of hope in parts of the Church of England, and there is tremendous spiritual impact.
On the other side, there is much to make you sad. There are some churches without much of what you would call the Gospel. They knew all about liturgy and ceremony but were scared of preaching. In one place my colleague on the team, a layman, was assigned to preach in a Roman Catholic church, and the congregation there was more open than in the Anglican church next door. I went to the Anglican church, and since I was a bishop they respected me. The priest said to me very gently, “Bishop, my people are not used to more than eight-minute sermons, so please keep that in mind.”
Q. Is there anything distinctively African in the East African revival that cannot be found in other cultures or that cannot be used in other countries?
A. That is difficult to say. Maybe our music or other forms of expression have made a certain contribution. But when we have gone to share it in the South Pacific or in Central America and elsewhere, we have shared Christ and not Africa. In Indonesia and other places God has done some wonderful things. No, I don’t think there is anything purely African about the revival.
